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Are Votto and Phillips in the Reds Future?


Probably not what you want to read.

So I’m reading yesterday’s Dayton Daily News. Yes, newspapers still exist. Since the DDN no longer has someone to cover the Reds beat, John Fay has his columns there now. (I wonder if he gets compensation?). Within Fay’s recent tellings is that of a question he asked many, many times: the status of Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips.

In regards to Votto, the number of “2013″ along with the phrase “re-sign” is usually attached. BP questions primarily center around any progress in the talks about an extension. Yes, these strike a chord within me and they should to all Reds fans.

Fay stated he doesn’t know the answers. Not a big deal to me. I know once he (or Mark Sheldon) know of any developments, they will let us know either via Twitter or a post on their blogs. That’s why I don’t sweat it too much.

But something else hit me while I was reading this…

This may sound strange, but I must ask. Should I be that concerned about the Reds after 2012? I mean, we haven’t even played an out this season and there are already those having Votto in Los Angeles or New York. Reds owner Bob Castellini assures the fans the Reds will try to keep Votto. There has been little noted about BP and how the extension talks are progressing. Phillips says he’s not “tripping about it”.

Seriously, 2013 is a ways off, isn’t it? Sure, I want Votto to be a Red forever. Sure, I’d like something to transpire on the front of Phillips and an extension.

On Votto, the chatter will always be out there until one of three transactions occur…

1. Votto signs another deal with the Reds
2. The Reds trade Votto within the next two years
3. Votto leaves via free agency.

They are facts. One will happen. We can’t bury our collective heads in the sand and pretend these possibilities do not exist. I would be lying if I said the talk of Votto elsewhere doesn’t bother me. It does, but that’s not something I can personally control. I do get miffed when certain people bring it up on a daily basis. I believe that’s a form of overkill.

BP? He wants the big deal and he made that known at the end of last season. It seems that Phillips has taken a slightly softer stance within the media though. I do like that no one has taken anything from the talks (or as was once perceived, lack thereof) and aired it.

I know, we heard the deal about using the Gold Glove and Silver Slugger as leverage, but I sense the line not being as hard as it might have been conveyed. Then again, maybe I’m just fooling myself. BP will collect $12 million for his duties in 2012 unless some other terms are negotiated. Not a bad payday for one year. Would I like to have him another couple of years? I sure would.

We could get caught up in the game of “you can only keep one”. If a poll were done, I have a feeling I know who would win. I suspect my vote and the majority would agree.

Bottom line is this. We have both for 2012. Why can’t we enjoy what we have for the time we have it?

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Tags: Baseball Brandon Phillips Cincinnati Reds Contract Extension Free Agency Joey Votto MLB

  • jsuer1971

    I believe a poll would favor Votto. Phillips, however, may be the most difficult to replace. Middle infielders with his combination of skills are rare.

    Wayne Krivsky doesn’t get much recognition – - but that guy picked both Phillips and Josh Hamilton out of the bargain bin. I believe he also drafted Votto and Bruce.

  • jsuer1971

    I believe Votto would be the likely poll winner. Phillips, however, may be the most difficult to replace. A middle infielder with his combination of skills is extremely rare.

    Wayne Krivsky doesn’t get enough credit for getting him from Cleveland for pitcher Jeff Stevens.

  • jsuer1971

    I believe a poll would favor Votto. Phillips, however, may be the most difficult to replace. Middle infielders with his combination of skills are rare.

    Wayne Krivsky doesn’t get much recognition – - but that guy picked both Phillips and Josh Hamilton out of the bargain bin. I believe he also drafted Votto and Bruce.

  • jsuer1971

    I believe Votto would be the likely poll winner. Phillips, however, may be the most difficult to replace. A middle infielder with his combination of skills is extremely rare.

    Wayne Krivsky doesn’t get enough credit for getting him from Cleveland for pitcher Jeff Stevens.

  • Steven Engbloom

    @jsuer1971 I actually did a post on that trade some time ago…giving Krivsky his due.

  • Steven Engbloom

    @jsuer1971 I actually did a post on that trade some time ago…giving Krivsky his due.

  • beeker

    I continue to assert that the Reds are by no means automatically out of running to sign Votto. They may have a better shot than most think.

    First, look at the market. Only a dozen or so team can afford to pay Votto what he will be worth in 2013. In order of payroll: NYY (Teixeira), PHI (Howard), BOS (Gonzalez), LAA (Pujols), CHW (Konerko), CHC (LaHair), NYM (Davis), SFG (Huff), MIN (Morneau), DET (Fielder), STL (Berkman), LAD (Loney), TEX (Moreland). Of that group, we can immediately eliminate NYY, LAA, BOS, DET, and PHI due to huge contracts with big-time guys. I could be wrong, but I have to think that if STL wouldn’t pony up for Pujols, they won’t for Votto either. So that leaves CHW, CHC, NYM, SFG, MIN, LAD, and TEX.

    Next, with Votto being such a private person, he is not going to be thrilled about the omni-present media in Chicago, NYC, LA and San Fran. Who knows, maybe one of those teams could dangle enough cash to get him to decide to deal with it. But thinking back to how private he was about his father’s passing, I think these cities are at a disadvantage.

    If I’m right, that leaves MIN and TEX. TEX will be determined by what happens in signing Hamilton, who could take what they have left. (Moreland is at league min. until 2017.) ATL could take a run at him if they wanted to bump up their payroll, but they have the same problem with being such a large city. COL could maybe bump their payroll, but I doubt it. Or TOR could hope to land a hometown discount.

    Of all the teams out there, only MIN is not a huge market but could afford to pay him a lot. (Morneau will make $14M in 2012 and 2013.) If the Reds do well in 2012, they may feel confident enough that attendance will support and increase in payroll. I doubt TOR could keep pace in salary offer, but I won’t minimize the appeal of playing in at home.

    In the end, Votto would have to take less than his full value to stay with the Reds, but make more than in Toronto. The familiarity and privacy just might make Cincy the right fit for him. Especially if the team is poised to contend for a few years. That has a value of its own as well.

  • beeker

    As for Philips (and I say this as a BIG BR fan), I know that he wants to stay, but I don’t see that happening unless he brings his price down. Why? Billy Hamilton.

    Hamilton probably needs another two years before he is ready. Unless Cozart completely falls apart this year, it doesn’t make sense to give BP a huge contract for several years that will block a hot middle infield prospect, basically forcing Walt to trade him. They will have to rent a guy to get them through 2013 most likely, but having a promising prospect who will be at league minimum for a long time will allow them to use the cash they are now paying BP (and Arroyo in 2014) to cover the rising costs of Votto, Cueto, and Bruce.

  • beeker

    I continue to assert that the Reds are by no means automatically out of running to sign Votto. They may have a better shot than most think.

    First, look at the market. Only a dozen or so team can afford to pay Votto what he will be worth in 2013. In order of payroll: NYY (Teixeira), PHI (Howard), BOS (Gonzalez), LAA (Pujols), CHW (Konerko), CHC (LaHair), NYM (Davis), SFG (Huff), MIN (Morneau), DET (Fielder), STL (Berkman), LAD (Loney), TEX (Moreland). Of that group, we can immediately eliminate NYY, LAA, BOS, DET, and PHI due to huge contracts with big-time guys. I could be wrong, but I have to think that if STL wouldn’t pony up for Pujols, they won’t for Votto either. So that leaves CHW, CHC, NYM, SFG, MIN, LAD, and TEX.

    Next, with Votto being such a private person, he is not going to be thrilled about the omni-present media in Chicago, NYC, LA and San Fran. Who knows, maybe one of those teams could dangle enough cash to get him to decide to deal with it. But thinking back to how private he was about his father’s passing, I think these cities are at a disadvantage.

    If I’m right, that leaves MIN and TEX. TEX will be determined by what happens in signing Hamilton, who could take what they have left. (Moreland is at league min. until 2017.) ATL could take a run at him if they wanted to bump up their payroll, but they have the same problem with being such a large city. COL could maybe bump their payroll, but I doubt it. Or TOR could hope to land a hometown discount.

    Of all the teams out there, only MIN is not a huge market but could afford to pay him a lot. (Morneau will make $14M in 2012 and 2013.) If the Reds do well in 2012, they may feel confident enough that attendance will support and increase in payroll. I doubt TOR could keep pace in salary offer, but I won’t minimize the appeal of playing in at home.

    In the end, Votto would have to take less than his full value to stay with the Reds, but make more than in Toronto. The familiarity and privacy just might make Cincy the right fit for him. Especially if the team is poised to contend for a few years. That has a value of its own as well.

  • jsuer1971

    The verdict on Hamilton is still out. He hit .278 at Dayton with 133 K’s and .136 in Winter Ball. I know he can run but can he hit big league pitching?

  • beeker

    As for Philips (and I say this as a BIG BR fan), I know that he wants to stay, but I don’t see that happening unless he brings his price down. Why? Billy Hamilton.

    Hamilton probably needs another two years before he is ready. Unless Cozart completely falls apart this year, it doesn’t make sense to give BP a huge contract for several years that will block a hot middle infield prospect, basically forcing Walt to trade him. They will have to rent a guy to get them through 2013 most likely, but having a promising prospect who will be at league minimum for a long time will allow them to use the cash they are now paying BP (and Arroyo in 2014) to cover the rising costs of Votto, Cueto, and Bruce.

  • jsuer1971

    The verdict on Hamilton is still out. He hit .278 at Dayton with 133 K’s and .136 in Winter Ball. I know he can run but can he hit big league pitching?

  • gunu

    I am so much impressed after seeing your blog.it gives us knowledge so I just wanna say its knowledgeable.

    seo

  • dgsapba

    I seriously doubt Phillips will be in the plans past 2012 ( Maybe if he would agree to a team he would go to) , that a deal could still be made this year and with Votto fans will need to come in great numbers if he can be kept longer than 2012 unless Castellini finds an angel to helphim finance the team, the other possibility is that if the Reds get off to a bad start he would traded for a package in 2012.

  • dgsapba

    I seriously doubt Phillips will be in the plans past 2012 ( Maybe if he would agree to a team he would go to) , that a deal could still be made this year and with Votto fans will need to come in great numbers if he can be kept longer than 2012 unless Castellini finds an angel to helphim finance the team, the other possibility is that if the Reds get off to a bad start he would traded for a package in 2012.

  • Steven Engbloom

    Here’s two things that get lost in all this crap: 1) Votto is a different cat, as they say. He’ll want a decent contract, but money may not reign supreme. 2) He is represented by Dan Lozano, same agent as Albert Pujols. Will depend on how much money Lozano needs…if you believe what was reported by Deadspin.

  • beeker

    @Steven Engbloom That’s all I’m saying. The market is more limited than many think because the deepest pockets either already have guys or are in places that Votto won’t exactly be happy to live. Money will be a big factor, but not the only factor.

    I was unaware of the article on Lozano. I feel icky now. He certainly won’t be much help in keeping Votto a Red. But making a deal with the Reds this year gets him paid a year earlier.

  • Steven Engbloom

    Here’s two things that get lost in all this crap: 1) Votto is a different cat, as they say. He’ll want a decent contract, but money may not reign supreme. 2) He is represented by Dan Lozano, same agent as Albert Pujols. Will depend on how much money Lozano needs…if you believe what was reported by Deadspin.

  • beeker

    @Steven Engbloom That’s all I’m saying. The market is more limited than many think because the deepest pockets either already have guys or are in places that Votto won’t exactly be happy to live. Money will be a big factor, but not the only factor.

    I was unaware of the article on Lozano. I feel icky now. He certainly won’t be much help in keeping Votto a Red. But making a deal with the Reds this year gets him paid a year earlier.

  • dgsapba

    @beeker You are correct Hamilton needs at least 2 more years good ones at aa and aaa.

  • dgsapba

    @Steven Engbloom @jsuer1971 Thank you for that Krivsky is or was a very good judge of talent ,both latent and the kind that can be expose by proper handling.

  • dgsapba

    @beeker You are correct Hamilton needs at least 2 more years good ones at aa and aaa.

  • dgsapba

    @Steven Engbloom @jsuer1971 Thank you for that Krivsky is or was a very good judge of talent ,both latent and the kind that can be expose by proper handling.

  • Steven Engbloom

    Bigger question is will Hamilton be in Double-A. They could send him to Bakersfield where everyone hits. Build a little confidence…

  • Steven Engbloom

    Bigger question is will Hamilton be in Double-A. They could send him to Bakersfield where everyone hits. Build a little confidence…

  • dgsapba

    @jsuer1971 Thank you for the mention of Krivsky

  • dgsapba

    @jsuer1971 Thank you for the mention of Krivsky

  • dgsapba

    I eventually was proven wron, however as the gm I WOULD HANDLED IT DIFFERNTLY  THANKS AND PLEASE KEEP BEING A RED FAN